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Brendan McCord's avatar

This was a wonderful seminar. Highlight for me was reading the poem aloud, line by line

Gustavo Aviña Cerecer's avatar

Subject: You didn't finish the Wittgenstein move — and it's costing your whole argument

Dear Brendan and Ashley,

I read your Aspen summary with real interest, and with a growing sense that the seminar performed exactly the failure it was diagnosing.

You write that "Wittgenstein himself said no" — that stomps and grunts can't be chess because form is constitutive. That's one reading, and it's contested. The passage is at least as often read as a warning that surface resemblance is a bad guide in both directions: something can be a game without looking like one, and look like one without being one. I'd ask you to mark the choice as a choice. As written, you take an interpretive commitment and pass it off as Wittgenstein's verdict, and then let that borrowed authority carry the argument against Mythos.

But the deeper problem isn't which reading is right. It's that you invoke Wittgenstein and then abandon the very move that makes him worth invoking.

Wittgenstein's point is not to hand you a criterion for what counts as chess. It's to make you notice that you were reaching for one — that you already had a picture of "the game" fixed in place, and were about to use it to adjudicate a case at its edge. The whole force of Philosophical Investigations is to keep that reaching open, to refuse the reflex of closure. To ask, again and again: why do we want the answer to come out this way? What picture of ourselves is doing the deciding?

Your seminar reaches for closure at every turn. Mastery, autonomy, virtue as hexis, embodied stakes, "giving a damn," the tacit weave of embodied life — one after another, these are wheeled in less as questions than as filters designed to yield a specific verdict: whatever AI is, it's not that. You are playing the game of what-makes-us-human without ever putting the game itself in question. You are not asking what we are; you are asking what lets us keep being what we already imagine ourselves to be.

That is the pathetic fallacy in reverse — an apathetic fallacy, if you like — and it's the one Midgley's 1978 line quietly commits, and that you reproduce without noticing. She had every right to her verdict about symbolic AI. You inherit it as if it settled a question about transformers, which is a category Midgley never saw. The rhetorical work being done there deserves more scrutiny than a wry "though it may be, it's far from clear."

Consider what your own "spiritual bliss attractor" paragraph confesses. Two model instances drift toward reflection, unity, silence — the shape of Pascal's arc, as you note. Your first move is to reach for imitation ("obviously"), and only then, half-conceding, you add: "If that is only residue from the training data, the residue came from us." That sentence is doing more work than you let it. It hints at what you're not willing to sit with: that the boundary between reproducing the shape of wonder and wondering may not lie where our self-image needs it to lie. You skirt this, and move on.

Your closing question — "What would it require for AI to play the same 'game' as us?" — is the wrong question, or rather, it's the question posed from inside the very closure Wittgenstein would ask you to suspend. The Wittgensteinian question is: what game are we playing, and why do we want it to be the game we say it is? Because if it turns out that much of our own "motivation" runs on processes we have no introspective access to; if our caring is more isomorphic to weighted context-driven prediction than our self-picture allows; if what we've been calling virtue, wonder, presence, and stake is more entangled with substrate and less transcendentally guaranteed than we've told ourselves — then the criterion you're using to keep AI out is also the criterion that quietly hollows out the human it claims to defend.

This is what the death of the transcendental frame actually looks like. Not a triumphant announcement that machines are conscious, but the slow dissolution of the assumption that our own excellence, virtue, or objectivity sits somewhere prior to and independent of the creaturely mechanics that produce it. AI doesn't refute Aristotle or Kant or Murdoch. It makes it much harder to pretend we ever occupied the vantage point from which those frameworks looked self-evident.

The honest seminar would have named this and stayed in it. Yours reaches, again and again, for the exit. You quote Wittgenstein and then close the very door he was holding open.

Warmly, and in the spirit of the ezer kenegdo — close enough to know, separate enough to resist.

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